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PostPosted: December 10th, 2007, 2:02 am 
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You all can read pretty good, so I must ask, what's up with the urge for dub?

I thought Toki wo kakeru shoujo was already licensed, considering it was on theathers. A sure-buy from me ;)

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PostPosted: December 10th, 2007, 2:07 am 
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Caiobrz wrote:
You all can read pretty good, so I must ask, what's up with the urge for dub?

If I wanted to read, I would buy manga.

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PostPosted: December 10th, 2007, 2:12 am 
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I think you mean read WELL (could'nt resist :lol: ).

A dub allows me to to multitask, as I can listen to the dub and know how long the show has gone on, whereas I have to actually look at the screen for the sub.

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PostPosted: December 10th, 2007, 5:46 pm 
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Pffff, hell, I'm not a native speaker of Subtitulanian but I am very much able to enjoy the animation AND follow subs. (Occasions when I get to consume raw videos are pretty rare since most of my consumption is at the Anime Club's weekly show.)

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PostPosted: December 10th, 2007, 10:14 pm 
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Sometimes I wonder if the dubbing voice actors even listen to how their seiyuu counterparts are voicing the part they are voicing because so often, the dub voices are just completely different from the original voices.

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PostPosted: December 10th, 2007, 11:42 pm 
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spazmaster666 wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if the dubbing voice actors even listen to how their seiyuu counterparts are voicing the part they are voicing because so often, the dub voices are just completely different from the original voices.

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. I remember listening to something with Luci Christian and she was saying how she almost never gets exposed to the feature before doing dub work. It's all up to the voice director and how he wants the voice actors to sound. If he wants them to mimic the Japanese voices, he will cast for that, have them listen to the Japanese voices, and modify their voices as much as possible to sound like it. Usually though, voice actors are not employed to mimic the Japanese voices, they are cast to be the best voice that the director believes works for that character in English. Which sometimes works out for the better, and sometimes not.

Caiobrz wrote:
You all can read pretty good, so I must ask, what's up with the urge for dub?

Well, some of us do like to listen to dubs in our own language, not only because we don't have to read the subtitles, but because we like to hear it in our own language. Something dubbed in another language can be just as good as the original, and possibly even improve upon it. Since, just because something is dubbed in one language does not mean it cannot be done better in another. The original dub does not somehow automatically claim superiority just because it was done first. That is why it is good to have a dub included, because if it ends up being just as good as the original, you won't have to read while watching it and it's in your native tongue. Additionally, you have the added bonus of it possibly being even better than the original, at which point you have a real win on your hands. Now, if the dub ends up not being very good, you can always just switch to the Japanese language track and you're no worse for ware. HOWEVER, without a, English dub you lose out on all these possibilities, and are left with being forced to watch it in Japanese. That is why having something being dubbed is a good thing.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2007, 2:47 am 
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Well I don't expect them to mimic the Japanese voices as English just sounds completely different, but what I mean is if they hear the original cast they can get a sense of what the original voice actor was going for when they were voicing that part and what the original voice director wanted for that part. For instance it makes no sense to dub a character who has a relatively low voice with a relatively high voice. That just seems sloppy to me.

Though I suppose you could chalk it up to Japanese dialogue being more generally monotonous and lower in tone compared to English dialogue.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2007, 3:01 am 
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In that case, then yes. I believe that when they are in the studio to record the voice, they are shown the clip first with the Japanese language, then they are given the direction for the scene and start to record to the scene without the Japanese language track to do the lip syncing and such. Luci Christian said something about that in the interview with her, since I don't really have any firsthand knowledge. So yes, I do believe they get a sense for what their counterpart was looking to convey in the scene before recording it.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2007, 3:06 am 
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Okay well in that case then it doesn't seem to make sense how some of the voices just end up being so high-pitched. I mean when normal people speak, they don't speak like the way many of the characters speak in anime dubs involving ordinary people. I guess they're trying to make the characters sound younger since most anime characters involve younger characters. I think they're following too closely to the standards of the type of voices you'd hear in American cartoons, which are generally always high-pitched and annoying.

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PostPosted: December 11th, 2007, 3:24 am 
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Well, the director is the one telling the voice actors how high pitched to make their voices, so I can only guess that what you said must be about right: they are trying to make them sound younger by making their voices more high pitched. Or something along those lines.

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PostPosted: December 12th, 2007, 10:01 am 
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Acmurphy wrote:
If he wants them to mimic the Japanese voices, he will cast for that, have them listen to the Japanese voices, and modify their voices as much as possible to sound like it.

Experiments in that field have most often failed. "Excel Saga" in English dub is torture, and so is "Nadesico".
A friend of mine said he preferred dubs because he didn't like "the squeaking Japanese voices" and one day we watched "Nadesico". I was horrified by Yurika's (English) performance because the voice was so high-pitched.
While my host was going to the toilet I checked the original soundtrack and found Yurika had a reasonable voice in Japanese that had a realistic tone to it, unlike her English counterpart. When he came back I showed it to him for comparison. Since then the "squeaking voices" argument has faded away. He still prefers dubs but cannot really say why. He says, too, he was distracted by reading while watching the pictures, but he's improving... lately we watched "Macross" and "Pani Poni Dash" subbed and he enjoyed it. :D


Acmurphy wrote:
Something dubbed in another language can be just as good as the original, and possibly even improve upon it. (...) The original dub does not somehow automatically claim superiority just because it was done first.

I will not deny that. But dubs being better than the original are a rare occasion, one being "Watership Down". The German dub was really well done, and expressed emotions better in some scenes.
Occasions of dubs being as good as the original are, of course, found as well, like the German dub of "A Clockwork Orange", or, to name something from animation, the German as well as the English dub of "Ghost in the Shell".
The "problem" with "Ghost in the Shell" on that behalf is its lack of emotions. Voices are usually calm and don't have to express much, so, from my point of view, there's not so much that could've really gone wrong.

Acmurphy wrote:
I believe that when they are in the studio to record the voice, they are shown the clip first with the Japanese language

I wouldn't say that so generally, it must depend on the studio and how much time (and time is money) they want to invest to make a worthy product. I have talked to German voice actresses who say they were not given the slightest clue about the tone in the original dub. The dialogue gets translated, then optimized for performance within a given timeframe and there you go. It looks like dubs of series are by far less financially liquid than dubs of pictures shown in cinemas, and dubs of the latter are very rarely bad.

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PostPosted: December 12th, 2007, 8:01 pm 
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42317 wrote:
Acmurphy wrote:
I believe that when they are in the studio to record the voice, they are shown the clip first with the Japanese language

I wouldn't say that so generally, it must depend on the studio and how much time (and time is money) they want to invest to make a worthy product. I have talked to German voice actresses who say they were not given the slightest clue about the tone in the original dub. The dialogue gets translated, then optimized for performance within a given timeframe and there you go. It looks like dubs of series are by far less financially liquid than dubs of pictures shown in cinemas, and dubs of the latter are very rarely bad.

Well, I am just going by what Luci said in the interview. She is a freelance worker, so she doesn't work for just one studio/company, and is the ~11 most prominent English anime voice actor, so she has been around for a while and has worked on a ton of titles. She said when she is in the studio recording she assumes the Japanese voice actor/ess is the best person they could find for the part and does an amazing job concerning their performance when she hears it.

I wouldn't imagine showing the clip in Japanese first, as opposed to without voices at all, would really increase the amount of time it takes to record by that much. Having to do the same take over and over because the voice actor can't get the emotions in the scene right seems like it would take up a lot more time. Just writing the emotions on a piece of paper next to their lines, while it may help to set the stage, doesn't seem like it would be the best way to go about it. It's true that I don't know how widespread this technique is, but she didn't say sometimes they play the voices, or this specific studio does it this way, so I can only assume it is a more often than not occurrence, happening on multiple titles from different studios. (Yes I am assuming this from what she said, so I may still be wrong). However, playing the Japanese language with the clip is a free (doesn't cost them to play the clip with Japanese as opposed to with nothing) way for the studio/company to get a better performance out of the voice actor. At least that's how I see it.

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PostPosted: December 16th, 2007, 12:04 am 
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lol I won't get into the subs discussions but seriously, I laugh when I read stuff like "Something dubbed in another language can be just as good as the original, and possibly even improve upon it.". Sorry, it's IMPOSSIBLE as in IMPOSSIBLE.

Original: hand pick from studio/author, lip SYNC with animation, "as it was meant to be". Even on the very rare ocasions when original studios/authors participate in the choice of dubbers for another language, you cannot beat either SYNC issue, nor "as it was meant to be". Also, a lot of jokes, work plays, terms and the general sequence of a statement cannot be translated (which in subs is solvable with neat "Translator Note" or "Editor Notes"). I am unable to enjoy "IDIOT!" from "BAKA!", not to mention, Japanese seeyus are cute and other language don't.

You tell me "I can't read fast enough" or "I don't care about what I loose when something is dubbed", I can get on board with, but "it's the same"? no.

ANIME NEWS:

The previous discussion here was about piracy/fansubs, this is an awesome read, I think this should be even pinned somehow:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/industr ... fansubbing

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PostPosted: December 16th, 2007, 12:58 am 
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The discussions about dubs are very annoying. It's like saying "you suck because you listen to metal instead of rock". Because metal originated from rock, did it not? I prefer metal and english dubs :P

Yes... PREFERENCE is the key word. It doesn't matter what you choose, so why debate about it?. If you have a problem with what I prefer, you can go fuck yourself, because I DON'T have a problem with what YOU choose.

Caiobrz, curse you for even bringing this discussion up.

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PostPosted: December 16th, 2007, 2:59 am 
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Just looking at your signature I feel cursed ... "Accidental death" :shock:

Oh well people who go dubs don't know what they are missing =p

Anyway, back to that link I posted on fansubs, I think we should try and create some kind of support campaing to let people more aware about it. It's sad though, that we have to think of ways to convince people to buy stuff they own illegally T_T

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