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 Post subject: Unlicensed Reviews
PostPosted: July 28th, 2007, 12:40 pm 
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I'm writing this thread not so much as a conversation thread put as a way of asking admin of the site to only review anime, games and such that we can buy here in the USA or on the web. Yes I know we have people from other countries but most of the people here are American.

What I'm trying to say is please don't post reviews about stuff everybody can't purchase legally.

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PostPosted: July 28th, 2007, 3:17 pm 
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Well, I didn't really think anyone was going to have a problem with reviews of unlicensed shows... guess you showed me! :lol:

Anyway, many anime fans watch fansubs and because of that have seen many licensed shows well before they ever get released in the US. Thus, reviewing unlicensed shows allows us to be in the more current anime scene, rather than always reviewing shows that are years old and just now finally hitting the US market. Now while you may not watch fansubs (my guess from this post of yours), a lot of people do, so reviewing unlicensed material is not inherently useless to everyone, as many people will still be able to view it if they are so incliend after reading the review.

I guess what I am saying is that I don't really see the problem with reviewing unlicensed material, as it is still a useful review to many people. It allows us to be more current in the Japanese anime market, rather than just in the American anime market, and allows us to give people the taste of a title they may have known nothing about previously.

I mean, we will probably be doing a lot more licensed than unlicensed reviews, but we are certainly going to review unlicensed material if the situation arises.

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PostPosted: July 28th, 2007, 4:01 pm 
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Not to mention that some shows get licensed quickly and get released in the US within a year or so but some may take much longer. It would be a shame IMO that anime fans should have to wait so long to find out about great anime series just because the American distributors don't feel that the series is "worthy" of a US release just yet. Fact is, most of the time American distributors will give preference to more popular shows.

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PostPosted: July 29th, 2007, 12:20 pm 
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I get it I understand you're points. Oh well not my site, you guys are free to do what you want. Just felt like saying something as though reviewing stuff like that is great, I got the series you just review on my buy list, but lets face it there are hundreds of great and wonderful anime that we're never going to see in the USA, mean it took them 3 decades to bring Lupin III and over a decade for Yu Yu Hakasho over here! So there's no garantee that the show you're reviewing is going to be get over here except for fan sups.

As I said in different thread i don't watch fan sub. While I commend people for doing it, it's still illegal. Its hard enough for a writers and voice acters to get by with what they get from tiny portion of the sales I'm not comfortable reducing that money any more by downloading stuff for free.

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PostPosted: July 29th, 2007, 3:33 pm 
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We aren't just covering only unlicense stuff, but also license stuff as well, and we will continue to do so. There's no change in what we review, and we are just broadening the site a little bit to those anime fans that watches the latest thing, and want to let the casual fan what they are going to see when it gets here. Of course we can't do a comment on dubs, or translation without some sort of error of percent, but we try to give every anime fan all the range of anime series, from old ones, to new ones, to the newest of the new. If you don't want to see the review, just don't read it, or when it starts coming out, then you can read the review. I do understand why you say that, but we arent endorsing downloading fansubs, and we will NEVER EVER tell you where to get them.

All that said, we understand, and hopefully you see our view. Also, what we may be doing as well is doing a check back on when the real R1 dvds come out and revise our review of the version 1 of it, but that's up to the reviewer choice.

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PostPosted: July 29th, 2007, 4:53 pm 
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I hear what you are saying Adict, and it is true that titles released in Japan may not get released in the US, possibly ever. But that just strengthens the point that we should review such gems so that people will be able to download them and get a chance to watch something they otherwise would have never known about or been able to see if they were waiting for a US release.

Now on the fansub point I do agree somewhat, but my view on fansubs has turned somewhat from hating them to only disliking them in certain circumstances. Fansubs are useful in watching series that have yet to be licensed, or may never be licensed. My only problem is when people use them as a tool for getting out of paying for licensed material. (Like 3 of my friends who have seen quite a bit of anime but don't own one DVD...) However, when used correctly fansubs can be an asset to the anime community as a whole, as it can create a following for a show before it even comes out. Thus I am not so anti-fansub anymore, but I still see problems with the fact that many anime fans only download titles, since they can with no consequences and it is much cheaper to get things for free...

But I digress.

Maybe your view on fansubs will change some in time, so you can enjoy the unlicensed shows we review as well.

Other than that I agree with what Tony said before.

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PostPosted: July 29th, 2007, 5:52 pm 
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Well I think the point of Animetric has always been to try to find and review anime that are worth watching, and I think it's only natural to branch out to unlicensed material. Also I don't really prescribe to the idea that fansubs (which come out before the DVD releases) are reallying hurting DVD sales. Just take domestic TV for instance. Big studios here in the US are now coming out with DVD releases for most of their major TV shows, shows which the viewers have probably been watching on TV for free for years. There will always be people out there who want to get stuff for free, even if it comes out on domestic DVD release (which is why you'll see pirated versions of anime DVD releases out on various torrent sites) but I think a large percentage of the fansub community will go on to purchase DVDs when they come out.

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PostPosted: July 29th, 2007, 8:35 pm 
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I would rather not get into a fansub debate on how it affects the industry, as I do not have any first hand knowledge on any of its effects. That is undoubtedly something more akin to workers in-hose at anime companies analyzing the download numbers vrs. sales numbers against other title releases with the same sales projections but without a fansub release. Or however they are looking at it as I would assume they are.

-=Below is just my speculation on what I have seen and read myself. Fansubs may, in the end, have a positive impact or no negative impact, I really don't know=-

However, from what I have read online, and from my friends, I don't see how, personally, fansubs and DVD rips could not be hurting the industry. I mean, my friends think I am an idiot for buying anime, something which I could just download for free. My friends are upper middle class, they have the money to buy DVD's, but they don't, they buy stuff they can't get for free with their money and just download whatever they can get for free.

Then we have the contingent of people that view Anime companies as evil, and refuse to buy any DVDs because they feel that their translations, transfers, prices / whatever else are worse than fansub quality. (If they had no fansubs or rips, they would be forced to buy DVDs, or go without anime entirely, or just watch what's shown on TV, but then they will be seeing ads so that works out).

I have read forums on fansub sites that after a company tries to protect its investment and sends a cease and desist order, I get to see pages and pages of how evil the company is and how they are never going to buy anything from them again. I have also read about how people are unwilling to buy a release of a series they like because of the English name it was given by the company in its translation... (Rumbling Hearts is an example, which if I remember correctly is what the Japanese company told them to call it, so it doesn't even make sense for them to boycott the American companies release! It's just an excuse).

Then we have normal people that watch fansubbed anime. The problem is that a number of these people are only going to buy a series if they really liked it, and even then may wait until they can buy it in a box set, rather than each vol. release since they have already had the pleasure of watching it for free.

It's this sense of entitlement to free anime that people seem to have in this day and age of the internet. Well, not just free anime, but free anything they can download.

This is just a list of the downsides, and I am not saying that all people fall into these categories or anything like that. I was just pointing out the downsides and people that don't buy due to entitlement beliefs / other reasons. Yes fansubs do have some pluses, like fan following before a release, or the plus for the viewer to be able to see a title before buying it, but the latter doesn't really help DVD sales. Overall I do believe that fansubs and DVD rips are hurting the industry, I just don't know how much. (Probably isn't a ton or the companies would be more vocal against it, but I do think it is hurting sales in the end).

Edit: Tried to clarify some items a little better.

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Last edited by Acmurphy on July 30th, 2007, 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: July 29th, 2007, 8:40 pm 
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Well said, Acmurphy. :) Like you, I'm probably the only one among my circle of friends who actually buys anime DVDs; everybody else just downloads them for free and think I'm an idiot for not doing so. From my personal experience, although a large number of fans who watch downloaded anime and fansubs say they'll buy the DVDs when they're released, the vast majority of them do not actually do so.

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PostPosted: July 30th, 2007, 11:52 am 
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Ugh how did this turn into a debate about fansub/ free downlading verse buying the stuff?

Any way I'm on both side of the line. While I can fully appreciate watching fansubs for show like Naruto that to wait for them to be released here i nthe states are going to take forever for no real reason. On the other hand I am a writer and know full well just how hard it is to make a living as one. Mean sure we only get a few cents or dollars from every copy of our stuff but that few cents may deside whether we keep our apartment or not. Also the more money the publishing house get the more series they can publish. So you can see how I'm split on the subject. I don;t like taking food out of a fellow writers mouth at the same time I think publishing houses are evil bastards.

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 Post subject: Re: Unlicensed Reviews
PostPosted: August 6th, 2007, 11:31 am 
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The Adict wrote:
asking admin of the site to only review anime, games and such that we can buy here in the USA or on the web. (...) please don't post reviews about stuff everybody can't purchase legally.

Why not? Writing the reviews can't be illegal... and I don't think it's morally wrong or anything.
I realize things have to be done thoroughly and the right way (like promoting legal activities and despising illegal ones when it comes to entertainment), but I see no need to be more catholic than the pope.

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PostPosted: August 7th, 2007, 12:47 am 
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Well I don't disagree that fansubs can hurt DVD sales but I think the main thing that hurts DVD sales is the pricing. If anime DVDs weren't so expensive (I consider $20-$30 per disc pretty expensive) piracy wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue as it is. Just like if live action DVDs were cheaper, we wouldn't see so many pirated movies out there. Even for people who can afford spending $25 per DVD, that's still a lot of money for just a single DVD. Especially for long anime series, one may end up spending well over $200 dollars if one were to just get the discs individually. On the other hand you look at pricing for American TV series and they usually run in the $30 to $50 range for an entire season, usually ending up being around $6 to $8 per disc.

However, it's understandable why anime DVDs cost more. Anime is still a niche market in the US and hence for anime disc sales to be profitable, the discs themselves have to set at a higher price since American anime distributors simply don't move the same kind of volume as compared to Western movies and TV. So on one hand, the distributors need higher prices to make a profit, but in doing so will discourage buyers who feel the price is too high per disc.

The question of course is, if American distributors lowered the price, would the increased sales volume make up for or even exceed the current gross profit from the current prices and sales figures. I think it would, but then again, I'm no expert.

Ironically the problem is even worse in Japan, where anime DVDs aren't exactly selling like hotcakes and many studios have been forced to release special editions intended for the hardcore fans as opposed to regular releases for the mainstream. Hence the reason why more and more studios are releasing series directly to the US and skipping the middle man altogether -- which only makes things worse for American-based distributors.

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PostPosted: August 7th, 2007, 2:55 pm 
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spazmaster666 wrote:
$25 per DVD

Uh, is that for new releases or is that what you pay after a year or longer?
New releases have their price, okay, I can see that, but in Germany I can buy "downgraded" versions (without extras like trailers, making of and stuff) a year after the release for the equivalent of 7 USD. Full Versions would be about from 12 to 15 E... about 16 to 20 USD. The extended version of the "Lord of the Rings" is available at retail shops for 12 E per movie.

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PostPosted: August 7th, 2007, 4:00 pm 
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42317 wrote:
Uh, is that for new releases or is that what you pay after a year or longer?
New releases have their price, okay, I can see that, but in Germany I can buy "downgraded" versions (without extras like trailers, making of and stuff) a year after the release for the equivalent of 7 USD. Full Versions would be about from 12 to 15 E... about 16 to 20 USD. The extended version of the "Lord of the Rings" is available at retail shops for 12 E per movie.


Well the thing is, here in the US at least, prices for anime DVDs don't really go down much per disc if you buy the discs separately, if at all. However, getting the box sets that come out eventually will save you a lot of money.

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PostPosted: August 8th, 2007, 9:49 am 
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Hmm oh well two cents time.

Yeah the charge us an arm and a leg here for anime. Still I don't think pirating would be the answer. People that are Pirating are only using bad subs, price or translation issues as an excuses for soothing their guilt because they know what they're doing is wrong. Base fact, pirating is free, this means the makers of the anime get no money for that viewing. The money of each purchase give money to the industery. It gives stores incentive to sell anime, Distrupters to tranlates and well distrupt and allow more and better quality of anime to be made. As you pointed out Spaz, it 200 dollars for 10 disc series, that two hundred dollard is 2 to 3 people's pay for an entire day. Food for thought no?

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