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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: October 3rd, 2008, 12:03 am 
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Now this is just sad. I've been gone five months and not a single post. :diss: :crap:

Well I'm happy to say that my current work i.e. book is now is classified novel. This means my book now exceeds 250,000 words. Yes the class of a written work is judged by word count not page count, if you're wondering. Or at least that's how things are done here in the USA.

If your your wondering what my surrent work is about well, hmmm I'm not very good at synaposees. Or spelling, when god will you grant me spelling!? :boohoo: :cry: :bow:

Any way here I'll try. The story is about a guy whom is teleported from his world to another, which just so happens to be in the middle of a war. This war is between three races, humans, a gigant insect like race and demons (yes demons as in bible demons) and it just so happens that humans are loosing, badly. Yes I know, not very orginal premase. Sorry, :bow:
Any waythere is crucial difference from another book of this type and that being that the main lead, or rather co-lead, doesn't care if he stays in the pending apocliptic world or his paradise like world.

The story follows this guy (named Kieba) as he goes threw the world doing his best to fix the situation. He is jpoined by a girl, whom hates his guts, whom is a member of the miliary and daughter of the military (her name is Sakura) whom he meets as soon as the story begins. A little while later he meets a female assassin whom he gets honor bound to him (her name is Aoi). and Sakura's, female lead, best friend. A scientist named Kitsu. Together they fight battle and try to figure out what the hell is actually going on. Though I have to admit Kitsu is more of a supporting character, what can I say? I just can't think of a way of getting him a bigger role in the story.

I the end it turns out that, the demons were summoned threw a demontional tear under orders of the rulers of the planets. The gigantic inscects was the planets responce in order to fight the deomns and humans got caught in the middle. The rulers did this because they are searching for a being known as the Hinobiko. The hinobiko is the goddes of deat hand rebirth (think EVA) and possess the power to alter the world in any way she so pleases. Obviously the rulers want this power for themselves.

So things kinda go from there, though you don't find out what is actually going on until anbout 3/4 threw the book. Whgat can I say novels are slow moving its their nature. :oops: But yeah feel free to pick it apart.

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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: October 4th, 2008, 5:30 pm 
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The Adict wrote:
my book now exceeds 250,000 words.

You wrote a book containing 250,000 words?
I think a single A4 page contains about 200 words, which makes your storya whoppin' 1250 pages, and double that for a normal softcover format. That would be quite something.

You wrote a book containing 250,000 words?
Who's your ghost writer? Or who's the guy who gladly spends several weeks in a row redoing your orthography? Must be some sort of patience artist. :lol:

The Adict wrote:
The story is about a guy whom is teleported from his world to another, which just so happens to be in the middle of a war. This war is between three races, humans, a gigant insect like race and demons (yes demons as in bible demons)

You wrote a book containing 250,000 words about that?
Are you going to sell it or is it just catching dust in your drawer?
What the heck are "Bible Demons" by the way? :wtf:

The Adict wrote:
Anyway, there is a crucial difference from another book of this type, and that being that the main lead, or rather co-lead, doesn't care if he stays in the pending apocliptic world or his paradise like world.

Aha! In that case his motivations, his whole character, must be very complex in order to create a story. What story is there if he doesn't strive to return home? What else drives him? Is he an evil character that just doesn't care where he can assume and enjoy power? Is he such a good character that anyplace to bring people happiness to is a good place? Why are his bonds to his original home so weak?

The Adict wrote:
He is joined by a girl, who hates his guts

So why does she join him? Or is she only pretending to have a sober reason for following him around, allthewhile being interested in him?

The Adict wrote:
who is a member of the miliary and daughter of the military

How can a person be a "daughter of the military"? :?:

The Adict wrote:
(her name is Sakura) whom he meets as soon as the story begins. A little while later he meets a female assassin whom he gets honor bound to him (her name is Aoi). and Sakura's, female lead, best friend. A scientist named Kitsu.

Holidiladio odelhol dudiladio!?

What kinda sentence structure is that supposed to be? It's none at all, there's just fragments!

I assume that
- Kieba (male) meets Sakura (female), who hates him but joins him nonetheless.
- Kieba meets Aoi (female), who is an assassin who is "honor-bound" to him.
- Kieba meets Kitsu (male), a scientist who is Sakura's best friend.

Am I right?

The Adict wrote:
In the end it turns out that the demons were summoned through a dimensional tear under orders of the rulers of the planet. The gigantic insects were the planet's response in order to fight the demons

For what purpose were the demons summoned? If you're saying the humans were "caught in the middle" I have to conclude the demons were not after the humans. Are the leaders of the planet not human? What are they then? Why are they the leaders, i.e. how did they get ahead of the humans?
And... the insects just sprang out of some cavern and where just there or what? They must have been there for a while already, since "the planet" cannot just create something. Unless you introduce magic or... unless you are one of those creationists. "The ultimate being/the spirit of the planet snapped his/her fingers and - whoosh - came forth the gigantic insects like Athena from the head of Zeus!"
(Oh, please, no... :vomit: )

The Adict wrote:
The hinobiko is the goddes of deat hand rebirth (think EVA) and possess the power to alter the world in any way she so pleases.

Overpowered. This means she can do anything. If there are different and other deities, what are those good for if Hinobiko can create, destroy and alter at will? Sounds like a solid argument for monotheism.

The Adict wrote:
Obviously the rulers want this power for themselves.

A god that can lose his/her power to mortals or can be forced by mortals to share or grant that power is not a god imho.

So I furtherly assume that the demons are the tool by which the goddess is supposed to be forced to grant the rulers power who for some reason think the demons would do their bidding just like that without plotting to steal that power for themselves. That would be rather stupid leaders. Viva la Revolución.

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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: October 5th, 2008, 11:55 pm 
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Okay . . . Here is was expecting more critism . . ., I'm almost disappointed.

First off Most 'novels' people reas are not actually classified novels. Also its required that a manuscript have at least 350 words per page and yes manuscripts tend to be 1,000+ pages.

I worte the entire thing myself actually. I'm still writing it actually have been for the last two years or so. Probaly got another two years in writting and editing.

Yes I plan to get it published make money off it.

Bible demons are like Statan, fallen angels that kind of thing.

As for while he doesn't care for going home/ why his bond to his whom are so weak . . . 8) wouldn't you like to know. 8) Makes you curious no??

Names are correct but let me clarrify.
Sakura's (main female) is the daughter of the commander of the military. The entire military, the commander and cheif so to speak. Her twin brother, whom was Kieba's (main male) previous life was her partner. In the beginning of the book, Kieba (alternate version) and Sakura are in battle. Twin ends up getting fatally injured, Sakura whom is indeed the said goddess bends reality and time to summon Kieba (the real main.) Kieba is extremely powerful. Hense the Command of the military decides its better not to disclose what had happened as Kieba is a usefull asset he doesn't want to risk losing. Hense she is force together with him as its orders.

Aoi (secondary female lead) is an assassin whom is sent by the heads of government to kill Kieba. This is because the heads of the government demand absolute obdience, something that Kieba is more then a little disinclined to give. In the course of her mission to kill Kieba, soundly defeats her in combat. As she failed her mssion she tried to kill herself. Kieba stops her and keeps her alive. To the rulling body she was nothing more then a tool. Kieba was the first person that tried her like a human being. There a lot more but, well you'll have to read it.

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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: October 6th, 2008, 5:33 pm 
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The Adict wrote:
... 8) wouldn't you like to know. 8) Makes you curious no??

Don't get me wrong, your plot sounds a bit too clichéed imho to make me "curious".
But in case you want to hear further opinions you'll have to offer more information. :|
If you don't add anything (at least concerning my so far comments and questions) I can't add anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: January 26th, 2009, 8:42 pm 
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Since I haven't submitted anything to this thread, I thought I could at least upload something old...tear it to pieces if you want.

Fairial
This is actually an old piece that I wrote two years ago. While I'd like to think that I've improved since then, I still like some parts of the story. This was for a creative writing assignment and I couldn't think of anything to do for the assignment until the day before it was due. I later submitted it to Fiction Press so I could get some feedback and know what to expect during the next class period.

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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: January 27th, 2009, 1:19 pm 
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Cab329 wrote:
Fairial - I thought I could at least upload something old...tear it to pieces if you want.


:blink:

If you really want me to comment on this you must be a masochist.

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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: January 27th, 2009, 5:01 pm 
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42317 wrote:
Cab329 wrote:
Fairial - I thought I could at least upload something old...tear it to pieces if you want.


:blink:

If you really want me to comment on this you must be a masochist.


Masochism...yeah...that would be good way of explaining it. I know it's sh1t, I could have had it edited or done a full rewrite, but I didn't (take that as you will). Rip it to shreds, ignore it, your call honestly.

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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: January 28th, 2009, 3:05 pm 
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Cab329 wrote:
42317 wrote:
Cab329 wrote:
Fairial - I thought I could at least upload something old...tear it to pieces if you want.


:blink:

If you really want me to comment on this you must be a masochist.


Masochism...yeah...that would be good way of explaining it. I know it's sh1t, I could have had it edited or done a full rewrite, but I didn't (take that as you will). Rip it to shreds, ignore it, your call honestly.


I had trouble making it through the superlatives describing the perfect and beautiful the town and its inhabitants. It was a bit overkill. I enjoyed the twist, but I think the short nature of your story undermined your impact since you didn't have time to develop any character enough for us to have real feelings for them. Also, since you made your character Mr. Perfect, it already felt inhuman, so there wasn't much surprise when he turned out not to be a man. Still, considering his defense of the village, he was still Mr. Perfect (just in a dark fashion). Normally, I prefer human or flawed protagonists, but granted, the omnipotence works for Hellsing and Vampire Hunter D, so maybe with more development, it would work here...

So. Why didn't you submit anything to the short story contest? It's obvous you write OK.

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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: January 28th, 2009, 3:53 pm 
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PunkDaddy wrote:
I had trouble making it through the superlatives describing the perfect and beautiful the town and its inhabitants. It was a bit overkill. I enjoyed the twist, but I think the short nature of your story undermined your impact since you didn't have time to develop any character enough for us to have real feelings for them. Also, since you made your character Mr. Perfect, it already felt inhuman, so there wasn't much surprise when he turned out not to be a man. Still, considering his defense of the village, he was still Mr. Perfect (just in a dark fashion). Normally, I prefer human or flawed protagonists, but granted, the omnipotence works for Hellsing and Vampire Hunter D, so maybe with more development, it would work here...

So. Why didn't you submit anything to the short story contest? It's obvous you write OK.



I didn't submit a story because my classes had me writing a lot of papers and, once winter break began, I was working nights as a Production Assistant, taking care of two dogs, and only getting a couple of hours of sleep. :D

Yeah, I really did over do it with descriptions (this was before I took any advanced writing classes, so I had hardly any experience with writing anything except for one page stories or poems). I also get what you mean about not developing the characters, I still have trouble properly developing characters during a short story.

The whole reason I originally built up the town and Roderick was because I was going to have the story end with Trolig's band massacring the town and killing Roderick anticlimatically (crossbow bolt to the head after he challenges Trolig to a duel, getting beheaded as Trolig's group charged down the hill, etc.) but that ending left me short by a couple hundred words, so I changed the it. :crap:

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 Post subject: Re: Writing...(critique and discussion)
PostPosted: January 28th, 2009, 6:17 pm 
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Cab329 wrote:
Masochism... yeah... that would be good way of explaining it. I know it's sh1t, I could have had it edited or done a full rewrite, but I didn't (take that as you will). Rip it to shreds, ignore it, your call honestly.

Okay then. Just a few words beforehand:
I heard that Americans show reluctance uttering criticism directly as a means of being polite.
Well, I'm German, which means I'm straightforward as a means of showing respect. I'll keep it civil.

Bit by bit...

It all begins with a first-person storyteller... that's fine, but he somehow disappears. Why?
He should have a final line to close the circle, like:
"So my grandfather heard from his grandfather, and now I'm telling you."
Just an example of course.

Your story is indeed short, so I was surprised to find that one of your longest paragraphs is dedicated to the (yaoi-qualified) description of Roderick, and an even longer part deals with minute descriptions of that peculiar fountain. The level of detail is impressive, but it's totally disproportionate to the length of the whole thing!

Yes, they are all perfect beings, beautiful and kind and well-off.
This kind of perfection is what I hate about Superman, flawless like the Utopian ideal American.
I prefer real people, with stubbly chins and problems, like:
"I hope the weather stays nice, cuz I need the harvest to feed my kids."
The whole town looks so awefully decadent... gold, silver, marble... rich black soil... and at the same time these people are so warm-hearted... oh please! This is so totally overdone.

One word ruins much of your story's credibility: "Europe".
Only someone who doesn't know squat about Europe could write something like this.
"more than once was he offered the opportunity to become their king" - king of the village or what?
European kings were not elected, they were born.
The only elected souvereign was the German Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor of the German Nation, to be exact. And he was not elected by the populace but by Kings and Dukes, a gathering of corrupt lords who were bribed into voting for a certain candiate... the only emperors to be selected by low people were the so-called soldier emperors of ancient Rome.

"Fairial" is another place name that doesn't quite sound like Europe. What language is it supposed to be? It has a Celtic sound to it, but the only areas to find Celtic place names even in medieval Europe was in Brittany, Wales, or Scotland... The Celts and their culture had been soundly defeated already 2000 years ago. Your story sounds like early Renaissance, which was only 600 years ago btw.

(The villagers) "would gladly room a traveler and fill a sack with money and food for them"
I don't think so. They would at least draw an army of beggars and rogues feeding on the solicitants - unless the smiling villagers kill them all so no one can spread the word about this El Dorado.

(Trolig's) "goal was not, however, to control the town or its riches, but to raze it to the ground."
European monarchs were far more pragmatic than that... oh, Trolig is not a monarch... more of a far-travelled mercenary and his not-so-merry men (and women).

What you write is pure fantasy, with no whatsoever relation to any historic facts, not even alibi facts to justify the European setting.
Erase the term Europe from your text and it becomes better in an instant.

Apart from that wasn't there a more subtle way to name the antagonist?
"Trolig" ("Troll-ig") is like a hit with a mace. That's not a real name, not now and not in the Dark Ages.
He's a bad-ass guy, therefore he must have a bad-ass name, so even the sappiest readers do get the message?
And why must he be stupid? Why does he talk like a retarded crack-smoking white trash ghetto dweller?
Yeah, I know that halfwit barbarian brutes with no brains are easier to handle antagonists than the cunning kind, because the first just stomp in with rough boots and swing their battleaxes, exclaiming more or less memorable one-liners, while the latter make intricate plans, necessitating intelligently twisted dialogues... way more difficult for the author and much more time-consuming.

And just like dear Roderick is so perfect, his opponent Trolig is the complete opposite. The juxtaposition of pure black and pure white, driven to the most extreme, is so disgusting I could puke.
(Sorry, that was uncivil.)

At this point, Roderick suddenly becomes a "boy". I rather thought he was a young man in his twenties.

And then the craziness really starts... Roderick is beheaded, turns into a black mass and defeats all the evil riders. Even while fighting myself through this insane northern slang of Trolig's I was still interested in seeing how it would all end, but that last chapter was more like "What the f*ck?!?".
I'll not go into detail here... it must suffice to say that it sounds like it was written by a frustrated 13yo with megalomaniac violence fantasies. Fanfic forums are full of these infantile wannabe authors who produce the most ridiculous and ridiculously violent stuff. Plot? What plot? The main thing is a gory fight scene in great detail. When I was that age, I admit, I liked gore and carnage, too. But I expect something a little more refined from a 20yo. Hell, even "Manowar" lyrics imply more thought!

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