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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 6th, 2008, 11:07 pm 
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I can't say I remember the last time a new member had such a dramatic introduction to this forum. ;)

Welcome aboard, Bloodfairy!

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 6th, 2008, 11:10 pm 
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Hey welcome indeed...oh Bienvenido :) !!!

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 7th, 2008, 1:44 pm 
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Bloodfairy wrote:
I totally disagree with Böll. If you feel like you have to watch for the contents of your expression (being the means words, paintings, or whatever artistic expression which doesn't involve performing an action on someone else's property which wasn't given willingly) just because someone's out there eager to punish you because in his or her opinion you're evil, you're merrily entering into a Totalitarian world, such as "The One who missed the bus" pursued.

You have a point, so I interpret that it's a matter of time. After a while connotations get weaker and make way for more current ones, but the time for forgetting Third Reich connotations has not yet come.

Did you know there is a dictionary of "dangerous German terms"? I can't remember the exact title now, but it lists terms of the German language which are supposed to be "historically tainted" - "Elite", "Endlösung" ("Final Solution"), "Umsiedlung" ("resettlement") or "Sonderbehandlung" ("special treatment") and "Selektion" just being the more obvious... I'll provide proper data in time. 8)

Bloodfairy wrote:
I love German culture the most (I'm planning on living there in a future)

Oh, please tell me more. :D

Bloodfairy wrote:
I can't help being fascinated by those crosses. I guess my passion for them has distanced myself so much of the "western conception" that I didn't take into account how heart-piercing they are for someone who's bred in the German society.

From the point of view of advertising psychology it was concluded that the Swastika is the single most powerful symbol on the planet in terms of conveying an ideological message and graphic design.
I think the Soviet hammer and sickle follow on rank #2. The star that both Soviet and US forces used (in red respectively in white), the old German eagle, and the US eagle were in the top 10 symbols, too. I read that in a magazine, in the middle of the 90s.

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 7th, 2008, 7:31 pm 
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I'm really passionate about Germany, since I studied in a German-speaking school. Regretably I couldn't maintain very well my knowledge of German, as you could see on the PM I sent you :P

I've got a crush on Bonn, don't ask me why. I was just there only for one day, yet I'll never forget how much I loved the atmosphere of the city. Although, I'd love to live in Frankfurt/Main or Köln, or Berlin.
I prefer big cities, since I've always lived in the countryfields.

Nevertheless, I'd truly like to visit Weimar, next time I come to Germany.

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 8th, 2008, 6:49 pm 
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Bonn?!? OMG, the only interesting thing about Bonn is Beethoven and related cultural sites. If you're hardcore, Bonn might be interesting for Mr. Adenauer as well, that old rogue... :D
If you're interested in Japanese and German culture, Düsseldorf is the place for you.

By the way I'm a country hick, too, but that's the reason why I dislike cities. Too crowded, too loud.
You know, on warm summer evenings, sitting on my veranda, I enjoy the fact that the only thing I hear in the background is the wind in the trees... (I live in Trier only because it's necessary, while I own a house on the countryside further south.)

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 18th, 2008, 1:13 pm 
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Wow both small-town guys, eh? The smallest city I've lived in is Seattle... The country seems so empty and makes me paranoid. I don't even notice the noise. I suppose that we establish a baseline of some sorts when we are kids and that is what seems normal?

Personally, your dialog is fascinating. Not only for the discourse on the power and evolution of symbols (making me wonder what it would take to "clense" the swastika) but also the discussion about residual guilt within cultures. We Americans still have active issues with our native american history, but we still actively create the discrimination (reservations, language, culture, etc.)...

You've lost me a bit on the discussion of cities in Germany. In Europe, I've only been to Munich, Perugia (It.) and Sienna (It.). Munich was nice, but they only served us "traditional" Bavarian food. I've never seen so many fatty cold foods in my life. I don't really drink, but beer was much better than head cheese. How does Munich compare with other cities in Germany? I barely got to explore the city, but it was cool how so many generations of people came out on the weekend to walk in the public park and socialize. We don't really have that in LA.

I'd love to go visit other places some day as well. What cities do you recommend in Spain, Bloodfairy? Oh yeah- welcome to the forum!

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 18th, 2008, 2:56 pm 
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PunkDaddy wrote:
I suppose that we establish a baseline of some sorts when we are kids and that is what seems normal?

Don't think this too complicated. "Normal" is a subjective term. It just happens to be that due to similar experiences of people living in relative physical proximity "normal" has become a somewhat objective term as well.

PunkDaddy wrote:
making me wonder what it would take to "clense" the swastika

Well, let's talk again in a hundred years. The human mind and learning from history has so far being proven a contradiction given a few generations of time.

PunkDaddy wrote:
Munich was nice, but they only served us "traditional" Bavarian food. I've never seen so many fatty cold foods in my life.

Bavarian food has its highlights, but most of it is terrible. You can clearly see that the Bavarians have close tribal ties to the Austrians who will serve you fatty meat plates with sausages that spit lard when you stick them as a local delicatesse. If you're not used to lardy food you'll be glued to the toilet seat for two days.

PunkDaddy wrote:
beer was much better than head cheese.

Bavaria doesn't have the best German beer, just the internationally most famous.

PunkDaddy wrote:
How does Munich compare with other cities in Germany?

What did you recently say about your cultural scope? :lol:
Going into detail would take some time. Suppose I asked you "How does Miami compare with Seattle? How does Boston compare with LA? How does Detroit compare with Atlanta?" I'm sure you can come up with a lot of physical and psychological differences although they're basically in the same country.

The German people are traditionally divided into several tribes:
Franks, Saxons, Bavarians, Thuringians, Frisians, Swabians are the so-called "old tribes". They are called old tribes because their existence can be dated back before 1000 AD. About that time the German peoples started expanding eastwards, thus creating the new tribes, Brandenburgers, Mecklenburgers, Higher Saxons, Austrians, East Prussians, Pomeranians, and Silesians. Although they speak a more or less common language (that artificial thing called "High German") they are as different as can be! Especially Bavarians who can be considered the Rednecks of Germany - "fiercely independent, and frequently belligerent" in political ways. :D
Like, how far do you have to travel until you're having trouble understanding what perfectly English speaking American citizens say? From my hometown, about 200 km is enough in order to cross several isoglosses and people start speaking a perfectly German dialect which I'm having problems understanding.

Btw, I don't belong to any of the mentioned tribes because I'm from west of the Rhine, a traditionally Romanic area that came into German possession not so long ago.

Recommended modern day travel spots can be found with proper explanations in a tourist guide. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 18th, 2008, 10:13 pm 
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I'd explain the difference between German cities from starting point which would be a bit later in History, during the Middle Ages, when many German cities were states of their own, such as the old Greek model of polis, and the land was divided between princes which were to choose an Emperor, even if that wasn't totally necessary.
After the struggle on Protestant beliefs and the fact that some independent princes, which could possibly rule over a single city and its surroundings or over thousands of miles, used Luther (with his own approval) for their profit, the wars on religion which devastated Germany in the XVII century ended up consolidating that city-state division through 2 centuries (XVIII and XIX), which were the most important for the creation of a national conscience. Thus, Germans developed a stronger feeling for their city or county than for their country.
Thing is, WWII had yet another perverse effect on German mentality: the Nero Order about self-destructing Germany when the Nazis saw the war was lost, plus the brutal bombardments made by the Allies against a lot of German cities, had yet a pervert result: that many cities and little places, which were priorly the core of "Germanship", ended up destroyed and their people slaughtered. That may have been a shock for mentalities used to cities which had had the same major buildings (churches and castles/city councils) for... hundreds and hundreds of years.

Nevertheless, that question of comparing cities is sort of strange for us Europeans, in general. I wouldn't compare Spanish cities neither, since they all have (or should) their own charm ^^

About what to see in Spain... Certainly, depends on what you're looking for. If you want to relax and set foot in a normally calm place, I'd come to the Canary islands, where I live. But if you're expecting something different from pure relax, you should visit cities like Madrid, Barcelona, Seville or Santiago. That's where things happen.
Thanks for the welcome ^^!

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 19th, 2008, 1:31 am 
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Wow. You guys are awesome. :bow:

I hope I wasn't offensively ignorant, but you're right, I totally failed to anticipate the diversity and differences between cities (and regions) in your countries. I suspected there was some variety, but obviously I failed to anticipate how much. Looks like I'll have to do a lot more homework before I actually make a trip!

You know, I was just thinking. You two just gave me a concise, comprehensive and utterly fascinating mini-course in history that I found fascinating, and you did so in your 2nd or 3rd foreign language!? :blink: My mind boggles as I realize how pathetic I am to struggle with Spanish when 42317 seems to have full command of German, Japanese and English and Bloodfairy counters with Spanish, German (from German School, right?) and English! My mom would be so ashamed. She tried to teach me Spanish since I was five and all I got out of it was a good accent... :shifty:

I hope my kids do better than I did. You guys put me to shame!! :oops:
Of course, you two are just one more example of why this forum rocks.

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 20th, 2008, 7:10 pm 
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Bloodfairy wrote:
I'd explain the difference between German cities from starting point which would be a bit later in History, during the Middle Ages,

Well, I thought he would be more interested in current affairs, but I admire your summary.

Bloodfairy wrote:
the land was divided between princes which were to choose an Emperor, even if that wasn't totally necessary.

... and the bastards were usually bribed by the Habsburgs who got the money from rich merchants like Fugger and Rothschild. So they became emperors but wee deeply indebted. A real political farce.
I agree that the Emperor had no real power - first he had to pay his debts and then there were powerful Lords all over the place who didn't leave much power to him. German particularism, hundreds of independant fiefdoms. That's why we didn't sack France hundreds of years ago. :D
Speaking of France, I was always wondering what might have happened differently in history if Francois I. of France would have won the (rigged) imperial election against Charles of Habsburg in 1519.
Oh well, I'm going astray, sorry. :|

But I'd say being Emperor was not completely meaningless. Remember that it was "Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire". The title brought lots of prestige, and, like anyone who would claim the title of "Emperor" in Europe later, it postulated the claim to rule over the civilized world.
PunkDaddy wrote:
I hope I wasn't offensively ignorant

That's okay, you were not. Otherwise I'd have let you know. :wink:

PunkDaddy wrote:
you two are just one more example of why this forum rocks.

Ah, hm, maamaamaa, sore hodo nai desu yo... what should I say... "thank you" I guess. :D

PunkDaddy wrote:
My mom would be so ashamed. She tried to teach me Spanish since I was five and all I got out of it was a good accent...

In a certain sense it's more difficult if you're from a country where English is pretty much the norm, because most of the world is trying to learn your language, so there's less of a need for you to learn theirs, except for polite or diplomatical reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 23rd, 2008, 12:02 pm 
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42317 wrote:
PunkDaddy wrote:
you two are just one more example of why this forum rocks.

Ah, hm, maamaamaa, sore hodo nai desu yo... what should I say... "thank you" I guess. :D

PunkDaddy wrote:
My mom would be so ashamed. She tried to teach me Spanish since I was five and all I got out of it was a good accent...

In a certain sense it's more difficult if you're from a country where English is pretty much the norm, because most of the world is trying to learn your language, so there's less of a need for you to learn theirs, except for polite or diplomatical reasons.


Thank you for your understanding. Still, it's uncomfortable for me to wear the gringo hat. :mrgreen:
Do you know the term gringo? It's a Mexican term for ignorant white American... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 23rd, 2008, 2:57 pm 
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PunkDaddy wrote:
42317 wrote:
PunkDaddy wrote:
you two are just one more example of why this forum rocks.

Ah, hm, maamaamaa, sore hodo nai desu yo... what should I say... "thank you" I guess. :D

PunkDaddy wrote:
My mom would be so ashamed. She tried to teach me Spanish since I was five and all I got out of it was a good accent...

In a certain sense it's more difficult if you're from a country where English is pretty much the norm, because most of the world is trying to learn your language, so there's less of a need for you to learn theirs, except for polite or diplomatical reasons.


Thank you for your understanding. Still, it's uncomfortable for me to wear the gringo hat. :mrgreen:
Do you know the term gringo? It's a Mexican term for ignorant white American... :lol:

Which is corresponded by the word "beaner", aye? :P

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: July 23rd, 2008, 8:58 pm 
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PunkDaddy wrote:
Do you know the term gringo?

Actually they don't translate that term in Western movies, so I'm well aware of it.
In a Spaghetti Western parody card game called "BANG!" there is even a character named "El Gringo".

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: August 20th, 2008, 10:27 pm 
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Welcome to the forums. Work and, uh, other projects have resulted in my relative absence in this forum but better late then never.

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 Post subject: Re: SORYAA!!!! *raises her sword* I greet you!
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2008, 7:08 am 
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spazmaster666 wrote:
Work and, uh, other projects have resulted in my relative absence in this forum

I was already wondering what was keeping you away, like a trip to China or something.

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