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 Post subject: Kisaku
PostPosted: November 13th, 2007, 12:19 pm 
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I'm opening this thread because I have seen two episodes of what is seemingly called "Kisaku the Lech" in the west. I don't even know which episodes exactly, and actually I don't care too much.

Now if I get it right, said Kisaku blackmails girls/women into submission by secretly taking ambarassing pictures or gathering according information. Whereas I like the evilness and insanity involved, in comparison to "Princess 69", "Kisaku" lacks... how shall I put it... a certain "vividness" (of which "Princess 69" as a whole has a bit too much for my tastes).

On the technical side, I can't really complain about character designs and animation.
Just the music is a large minus and the voice acts could have been done a little better.

Can't say much more about it... feel invited to add opinions and information, please...

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PostPosted: November 13th, 2007, 2:12 pm 
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Sounds like Shusaku (which I have'nt seen but know of (I've only watched three hentai series :| )). Two saku characters that both blackmail girls...what does saku mean?

Sorry for getting off topic. I've never been into the whole blackmail thing, I mean if those girls were smart, they'd just buy a gun or knife and just kill whoever was blackmailing them :evil: . But I guess power games are arousing to some exent... :?

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PostPosted: November 13th, 2007, 9:25 pm 
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Cab329 wrote:
I've never been into the whole blackmail thing, I mean if those girls were smart, they'd just buy a gun or knife and just kill whoever was blackmailing them :evil: .


Well, then you'd be a murderer, with all the consequences that entailed. While many people may sympathise with you, there's still no question that you're a murderer, and other people will never look at you (or fully trust you) the same way again.

Also, shame and fear of other people finding out what happened to you is apparently a really big psychological factor for many people. It is estimated that a third to almost half of all sexual crimes go unreported because the victim is too embarassed to seek help. For a society that places high emphasis on 'face' and family honor like Japan, the pressure to keep things quiet might be even higher than that for Western societies.

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PostPosted: November 13th, 2007, 9:41 pm 
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True, true...I just greatly dislike the genre... :evil:

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PostPosted: November 13th, 2007, 11:43 pm 
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Oh, no arguments there. While I do like "power play" and BDSM hentai (and erogames), I'm often distressed that the emotional and psychological aura around such things is always negative. There's never any "loving" Domination.

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PostPosted: November 17th, 2007, 5:26 pm 
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Cab329 wrote:
Sounds like Shusaku

If I understood the dialogue right, this one Kisaku guy is the brother of Shûsaku.
And there is also "Isaku", another spawn of this family if I interpret ANN's information correctly.

Cab329 wrote:
Two saku characters that both blackmail girls...what does saku mean?

As for the names:

Shûsaku is written 臭作.
"Shû" is also "kusai" which means "rotten smell".

Isaku looks like this in Kanji: 遺作
If I read my dictionary right this "i" Kanji means "a deceased person".

Kisaku is written 鬼作.
"Ki" is pronounced "Oni" when alone and means "Ogre", "Devil", "Demon", which is fitting because Kisaku seems to have supernatural powers in terms of his ability to move without being noticed and appearing in unexpected places (to shoot his photos and sneak up on new "slaves").

The second Kanji, "saku" means "product" or "work", so I'd say "Kisaku" is "the devil's work".
The meaning of "Shûsaku" is pretty clear then, but I cannot think of a good term.
The name "Isaku" might be in some way better to comprehend if one watches the OVA...

Cab329 wrote:
if those girls were smart, they'd just buy a gun or knife and just kill whoever was blackmailing them

The stories are set in Japan, which has the strictest weapon restriction laws on this planet.
People will give you worried looks if you're seen with a pocket knive with a blade of more than 2 inches.
Which is to say: You can't just get a gun in Japan by showing your driver's license and presenting the necessary money.

If your comment has a more general basis... well, I haven't heard of such blackmail cases in the media yet. Which means that it's either really rare - or really effective. Anyways, for the victims, shame is a major factor to remain silent, and there are many many people who refuse to answer violence with violence.

Cab329 wrote:
But I guess power games are arousing to some exent... :?

Rape is all about power and nothing else. Sexual needs are of no importance or play a very minor role.
The only thing that counts is showing the victim that you are more powerful and can do with him/her as you please.

A special Hentai character on this behalf is the arrogant girl from a rich family who thinks social rules do not apply to her because Daddy has dough. Their uppish behavior and high social status enhances the pleasure of degrading them. Tomomi from "Princess 69" is such an archetype. There's a rich girl in "Kisaku" as well, but she doesn't act like it (she's more, like, "the innocently naughty type", so it's not as much fun seeing her suffer when she has to take Hershey Highway).

Tomboy girls also fit in this category somehow because they are usually tougher, physically stronger and more independent than normal girls and may fall in the deepest despair when they find themselves helpless - another source of sadistic pleasure, "Not so tough anymore, ey?"

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PostPosted: November 17th, 2007, 5:47 pm 
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The only time I take pleasure in rape scenes is when the girl deserves it. When they are innocent it usually leaves a sick and disturbing feeling. Their are a few exceptions though (I liked Oni-Tensei).

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PostPosted: November 17th, 2007, 8:48 pm 
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Wait...he's Shusaku's brother? That's...............................................never mind. Well, the names definetly describe their appearance. Well, yeah...I should'nt have made that murder comment...heh heh.
The power comment was actually for the watching of the genre.

Rape just does'nt do it for me. I watched Wicked Lesson two summers ago (not a particularly good title...though the foursome with the triplets was very memorable). Pretty much the guy raped his naive stepsister, raped a co-worker, blackmailed some triplets (who were being pretty twisted themselves, so I did'nt feel all that bad for them), attempted to rape his boss' niece (though she let him have his way), and then finally raped the daughter (multiple times) of his boss and blackmailed his boss into giving him the school he worked at (Ironically, to get back at his boss for raping his mom). After I finished, I just felt bad for the characters (and for myself since I wasted money on it).

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PostPosted: November 23rd, 2007, 3:50 pm 
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Mmsven wrote:
The only time I take pleasure in rape scenes is when the girl deserves it.

Who are you to judge who's innocent and who's not? :D

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PostPosted: November 24th, 2007, 12:56 am 
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The fact that rape is prevalent in hentai titles is usually counteracted by the fact that it is only rape for about the first 5 seconds, then the girl starts to love it. This causes the actual fact of it being a rape to have much less of a emotional impact on the viewer when the girl is so into it after a little bit. (If she isn't into it, it usually becomes rather awkward and you start to feel a little dirty and sorry for her. Not exactly the "purpose" of a hentai title) This does send a rather odd message though: "If women don't want it, they will after you get going!" :twisted:

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PostPosted: November 24th, 2007, 2:27 pm 
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Acmurphy wrote:
The fact that rape is prevalent in hentai titles is usually counteracted by the fact that it is only rape for about the first 5 seconds, then the girl starts to love it.

... which is a feature of most porn movies that contain a rape scene.
Most.

I haven't seen any developing consent in "Urotsukidôji", "Kisaku" or "Princess 69", and that is good.
I keep such videos for days when I'm frustrated or angry for some reason (happens rarely, but it does) and I need them to blow off steam. "Softcore rape" would never achieve that goal. On such days, I want to see someone suffer, and I don't mean "The Passion of Christ".

Feeling dirty and sorry for her? Come again?
We're talking about a friggin' Anime with fictitious people in it... seeing the girls beaten or mutilated or killed is indeed a turn-off in my opinion, but I don't mind them screaming, fighting and wriggling, being screwed big time.

BUT... getting this in an Anime that is not supposed to entertain sexually is something completely different. Sara, the blonde girl in "Ima soko ni iru boku", was a hard emotional clubbing for me.
Context is all that matters. :D

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PostPosted: November 24th, 2007, 4:02 pm 
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42317 wrote:
Feeling dirty and sorry for her? Come again?
We're talking about a friggin' Anime with fictitious people in it... seeing the girls beaten or mutilated or killed is indeed a turn-off in my opinion, but I don't mind them screaming, fighting and wriggling, being screwed big time.

BUT... getting this in an Anime that is not supposed to entertain sexually is something completely different. Sara, the blonde girl in "Ima soko ni iru boku", was a hard emotional clubbing for me.
Context is all that matters. :D


Yes, feeling dirty that you are sitting here watching this girl getting raped, and sad for her that she is getting raped. Be it animated with fictitious characters or a movie, TV series, etcetera. Since, only context matters, right?

You seem to be saying that I shouldn't feel sorry for girls in hentai titles that get raped, because it's animated and contains fictitious characters (At least at the start anyway, with the whole, "it's just a friggin anime" bit). Yet, I SHOULD feel sorry for girls in anime titles, which is animated with fictitious characters, simply because of a change in the context. Come again? Hmm, that doesn't quite work for me. Simply changing the idea that rape should be disgusting to arousing does not change the fact that a girl is being raped, and isn't enjoying it. I guess I am just too empathetic a person, feeling sorry for both hentai and anime girls getting raped and all :roll:

42317 wrote:
but I don't mind them screaming, fighting and wriggling, being screwed big time.

Which could be why you feel no empathy towards girls in that context.

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PostPosted: November 24th, 2007, 5:41 pm 
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If it's Hentai, I enjoy rape.
If it's not Hentai, I detest it.

I never claimed I was wholly sane. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: November 24th, 2007, 7:13 pm 
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Anime affects me emotionally just as if it were real life (usually). Thats why I don't like depressing and disturbing anime very much.

Princess 69 really made me feel sick for a while (they made the girls look like they were around 16 years old). The spinoff of it is fine though, I couldn't even say that it had any rape (except for the last scene, but the girl on that deserved it).

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PostPosted: November 28th, 2007, 9:14 pm 
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I am somewhat new to hentai, been away from it ever since started with anime in some kind of "let me see anime first or I might get disapointed if I start with hentai" ... I would say smart move, since hentai sucks anyway. But I read some interesting biased stuff here so I will drop my bias as well =p

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The only time I take pleasure in rape scenes is when the girl deserves it.


Rape is the worst think that can happen to a human being, it's the most violent agression both physically and mentally. A woman would rather die than to get raped, and I would say so if man could be easilly raped. How anything would make one DESERVE that fails me.

People get aroused with power games, S&M and rape, IMHO, for one simple reason which I actually read in one hentai anime thread at boxtorrents: it's forbidden, it's brutal and you can't do in real life, so the same way it's exciting to do stuff that you should not, watching those might be arousing for one. I noted I actually get more aroused with that than straight normal hentai, why? I can have normal sex IRL. The fact I cannot really connect with ANY character in an hentai also makes them just objects (dolls if you will), so it's easier not to get the emotional/agression thinking in the way. I couldn't care less to what happens to a girl in Hentai, the same as I couldn't care less for what happens with characters with lack of character development in anime, or in movies. Some "near-rape" scenes in anime were a lot more disturbing to watch than in some hentai like Shusaku, simply because in hentai girls sound like dools with no souls XD~

Good example from 42317, Sara was hard to take, a lot harder than most hentai rapes, and BTW:

Quote:
If it's Hentai, I enjoy rape.
If it's not Hentai, I detest it.


Same here ... I don't see the fun to download regular sex hentai ... one can make that with GF, wife or even a prostitute LOL. Again .. fetiches are a bitch (pun intended)

And that would cover my reply to Acmurphy about feeling sorry or not on fictitious characters ... Hentai chicks just don't get real enough for me to feel anything. But in a well made anime title (most likelly not hentai than =p) it can be disturbing. I would thus not say that 'context' is what matters because be it in a weak hentai or a good regular anime, the "rape" context is somewhat the same .. for me what matters is if I get emotionally attached to the characters/plot enough to care. Only hentai I did get emotionally attached were usually lightheart erocomedies like Futari Ecchi, Buttobi CPU etc...

Funny think is, REGARDLESS of how much I don't care for a character (so I don't mind the rape), if things get bloody or fatal it's another story. Seams my mind cannot forgive "doll" murder but can forgive "doll" rape >< our minds are weird.

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The fact that rape is prevalent in hentai titles is usually counteracted by the fact that it is only rape for about the first 5 seconds, then the girl starts to love it


Hmm in my browsing in hentai titles in several sites, I did not confirm this is prevalent ratio. I would say less than 10% titles feature rape. Is that enough to say it's prevalent or perhaps it's more prevalent compared to regular porn or something? yet, I would say it's easiest to make violent rape scenes in animation, for instance, can anyone confirm the same rape ratio in regular Japanese porn?

About the second part on they loving it ... yeah, what is the hell with that? again, my doll theory kicks in XD~ realism 0

I did not watch Kisaku nor Isaku, but only Shusaku, and I must agree ... they are so dumb I almost say they deserved all that ><actually><; some of the rapes a simple kick in the balls would go a long way to stop it (they often have plenty of chances).

Most realistic rape I saw was in "Perverse Investigators" second episode. That's realistic, the girl try hard to stop it, she even try kicking the guy on the balls (shame he was smart enough to evade), than she tryed to bite his *** off when he tryes oral sex (why woman getting raped in hentai never thought about that also fails me .. just chew it off LOL that would put me rooting for her instead of the rapist lol). BTW in the end the mentioned rape scene gets psichological and the girl actually reverts the situation, which puts her as the only girl I ever cared during a rape. The hentai however is very weak other than this sequence.

off topic: any other borderline hentai like Futari Ecchi, Buttobi CPU? Good titles to watch with wife xD~

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