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PostPosted: January 14th, 2008, 7:00 pm 
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Acmurphy wrote:
If you're saying that animals deserve to live no less than humans, how can you eat them?

Yes, I realize this is a pinch. It came to my mind after I had finished the post in question.
It is a sort of bigotry I have to admit, so I'd like to rephrase it like this:
I don't mind the killing of animals as long as it happens fast with a minimum of pain, and as long as it serves a greater good, be it food supply or epidemic control.
I do mind the harming of animals for entertainment reasons, and improper slaughtering methods which prolong or allow suffering.

Zaxares wrote:
Addressing Mmsven: No, I'm not a vegetarian.

I think that was a rhetoric question anyway...

Zaxares wrote:
The thing that annoys me the most is how the Japanese keep insisting that [whale hunting] is for "scientific research", when anyone with a brain can see otherwise. They should just admit that they're doing it for commercial purposes.

I don't really see commercial purposes. With all these whales they kill you might think there was an at least moderate stock in every supermarket, but I actually had to look for it. Furthermore the sale of whale meat is not economic, the industry lives off government subsidies (hail the lobbyists!), and although it's relatively cheap, hardly anyone eats it - because it doesn't taste all that great.
I was curious. I ate a can.

My personal opinion is that the Japanese hunt whales because it boosts the ego of some politicians to stand smiling and invulnerable against a world of protesters. I assume it's a (vulgar) display of power. Such thinking is common among Chinese politicians as well (imho), just that they don't hunt whales, but they do other stuff, like the human rights discussion, cyberwarfare, copyright infringements and so on...

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PostPosted: January 14th, 2008, 10:05 pm 
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So since animals are equal to humans with your logic, you wouldn't mind cannibalism? (in a case where no murder is involved)

Or what if a dominant alien species came to our planet and starts eating humans?

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PostPosted: January 15th, 2008, 4:10 am 
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Not sure who you're referring to there, Mmsven, but yes, I fundamentally see no problem with the consumption of human meat as long as no one was murdered for it and the person providing the meat is OK with the knowledge he's going to be eaten after he's dead.

In the case of the dominant alien species, I imagine that humanity would resist, just as animals would resist a predator trying to eat them. If we can fight off the aliens, good for us. If we can't... Well, that's the way of the world. The strong exploit the weak. The best we can hope for in that case is that the aliens treat us in the same manner as I would like humans to treat farm animals; we are allowed to live sheltered lives in relative comfort, never having to worry about food or daily concerns. Everything is provided for us. In exchange, our lives are shorter as we are killed in a quick, painless method as food for the aliens.

Most people would find the idea abhorrent, of course, but the way I see it, is living a short, idyllic life full of comfort really worse than living a long life filled with struggle and adversity?

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PostPosted: January 16th, 2008, 2:26 am 
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LOL :lol:

That response was funnier then the bug fights.

The concept of humans being like farm animals... wow...
I'm not sure if I'd want aliens to provide us food. Who knows what they would feed us.

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PostPosted: January 16th, 2008, 11:56 am 
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Anyway I don't believe in animal-equality. I mean, human equality isn't existent, so I'm not going to think about animal rights.

I mean, Killer Whales toss seals around for their own entertainment. And to teach their cubs how to hunt for that matter, but they are definitely having some playtime there ....

Those videos are so failing at loading for me for some reason or another, but as a kid, I did stuff like drop black ants in the middle of a termite stream and of course set up a death match between a black and red ant(the smaller red ant was ripping the bigger black ant's legs off, and it wasn't putting up much of a fight), so I daresay I'd be amused. But I'm not gonna think about the ethics. I mean a mosquito bite is relatively harmless(yeah yeah, dengue fever and the lot....), but we go kill the damn things en masse with toxic sprays and shit.

The strong exploit the weak for their own conveniences, there are circumstances where I might approve of, others where I don't approve of, so what the heck. Everybody has their own view on this.

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PostPosted: January 16th, 2008, 5:53 pm 
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Mmsven wrote:
So since animals are equal to humans with your logic, you wouldn't mind cannibalism? (in a case where no murder is involved)

No murder involved? That asks for a definition of murder. How about tribal wars, a fair fight, the loser gets eaten? Or do you mean something like a guy stepping up to you saying "Please eat me"?

Actually there was such a case in the news in early 2007. Two guys, one with cannibalistic tendencies, met via the internet and agreed that A should kill B and eat him. So it was done, but despite according letters of the eaten the cannibal was punished by law.

And actually I don't care much. If it's consensual you can eat anyone you like.

Mmsven wrote:
Or what if a dominant alien species came to our planet and starts eating humans?

I'll think about it once we're being invaded, okay?

Zaxares wrote:
The strong exploit the weak.

I like the idea that the strong should instead protect the weak, but since humans are by nature egoistic, my approach seems rather like the exception.

Zaxares wrote:
The best we can hope for in that case is that the aliens treat us in the same manner as I would like humans to treat farm animals; we are allowed to live sheltered lives in relative comfort, never having to worry about food or daily concerns. Everything is provided for us. In exchange, our lives are shorter as we are killed in a quick, painless method as food for the aliens.

Sounds reasonable. So let's hope our invading giant purple people eaters don't adopt our ways of treating livestock.

Zaxares wrote:
Most people would find the idea abhorrent, of course, but the way I see it, is living a short, idyllic life full of comfort really worse than living a long life filled with struggle and adversity?

I'm not sure whether most people find this idea abhorrent. They wouldn't like being eaten, but abuse seems okay with most people as long as they are allowed to live in relative safety, preferring the golden cage to the complications of freedom. That's what dictators rely on.

Storm_Shinobi wrote:
I mean, human equality isn't existent, so I'm not going to think about animal rights.

I think animals at least have the right to a life without worries and a painless death.
That's all I ask for my life, and it's the best thing I could possibly wish every living creature.

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