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The Learning Japanese Thread
http://www.animetric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=303
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Author:  rory_okane [ August 1st, 2007, 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  The Learning Japanese Thread

we used to have one of these on our old forums. anyone who's got reasonable japanese wanna post something, and be our nihongo no sensei? (needless to say, i could use some help! :P)

Author:  42317 [ August 6th, 2007, 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Learning Japanese Thread

rory_okane wrote:
needless to say, i could use some help!

So why don't you just ask?
I did plan to write a most basic grammar BRS, but I had to realize there's no time for that in my schedule... sorry to anyone who waited hopefully back then. But I'm willing to answer questions to the fullest of my abilities.

Author:  rory_okane [ August 7th, 2007, 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

i may just ask. i think i might just want to learn how to conjugate verbs properly! that'd be something! :D

Author:  42317 [ August 7th, 2007, 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

rory_okane wrote:
how to conjugate verbs properly!

There are different "add-ons", like the many possibilities after the "te-" form, e.g. "te-iru" or "te-oku", or different forms of politeness. Of course (?) there's a past tense, but there's no conjugation in a sense like gender or number aspects.
Going into detail would cost me some time now which I don't want to spend because it's 00:35 now.
But I can recommend the grammar dictionaries of Makino and Tsutsui, "A Dictionary of basic Japanese Grammar", and "... intermediate Japanese Grammar". Those are the best out there. Prices should be betwen 2000 and 3000 Yen, +/- 10% maybe (currently 9 to 13 GBP?).

Author:  rory_okane [ August 8th, 2007, 5:52 am ]
Post subject: 

Domo, 43217 san!

Author:  42317 [ August 8th, 2007, 7:47 am ]
Post subject: 

No sweat... I had posted a basic yet complete list of how to handle Japanese verbs BRS which took me five hours to write, but it was all lost in the shutdown... :cry:

Author:  rory_okane [ August 21st, 2007, 8:48 am ]
Post subject: 

oh, i'm sorry 42317, i didn't mean to put you through so much trouble. forget about it, you don't need to do that for little old me. :)

Author:  42317 [ August 21st, 2007, 9:30 am ]
Post subject: 

Oh, I wasn't planning on posting the basic grammar again any time soon. That's why I encouraged you to ask questions - I can answer them concretely then instead of offering time consuming general information.

Author:  Mmsven [ June 8th, 2008, 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Japanese Pronunciation

I thought I had the pronunciation of "Anime" down with ani-may. Then this dude named Mark Crilley, whos been to Japan, pronounces it as oni-may. I've never heard it spoken like this, so what is it supposed to be? If I ever plan on doing video reviews and whatnot, I at least need to know how to fucking pronounce it :evil:

EDIT: Nevermind, thinking back to all the times I've heard it pronounced as ani-may, I've concluded that this Mark Crilley guy just doesn't know what hes talking about.

Author:  42317 [ June 10th, 2008, 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Pronunciation

Yeah, "onimay" is sorta strange.
Do you have the source material (online) available? Can he be contacted somehow?
It might be of importance where this fellow resides in Japan, since there are abundant dialects.

Author:  Gojira [ June 10th, 2008, 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Pronunciation

Mmsven wrote:
I thought I had the pronunciation of "Anime" down with ani-may. Then this dude named Mark Crilley, whos been to Japan, pronounces it as oni-may. I've never heard it spoken like this, so what is it supposed to be?

Well the way the "a" is pronounced in Japanese is more like "ah" instead of a long a or a short a. Pronouncing it as oni-may is supposed to be the correct to saying that word, but since Anime is a shorter word for animation, it's fine to say it as ani-may. I've taken Japanese language class in high school for 3 years and my sensei says as oni-may when she speaks in Japanese.

Author:  42317 [ June 11th, 2008, 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Pronunciation

Gojira wrote:
Well the way the "a" is pronounced in Japanese is more like "ah" instead of a long a or a short a. Pronouncing it as oni-may is supposed to be the correct to saying that word, but since Anime is a shorter word for animation, it's fine to say it as ani-may. I've taken Japanese language class in high school for 3 years and my sensei says as oni-may when she speaks in Japanese.

I'm having trouble believing what I read there.

What kind of sound are you referring to when you say "oni-may"?
Like in "only"? Hell, I hope not...
Or more like on "on and off"?
Be it as it may, the first option is plainly wrong and the second is definitely not standard Japanese.

The /a/ in "Anime" is not as long as in "father", more like in "pub". Additionally, the /e/ in the end is also realized as a short vowel, like in "Ted". Japanese vowels are short by nature, compare "kazan" ("vulcano") and "kaa-san" ("mother" + honorative).

Author:  Gojira [ June 11th, 2008, 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Pronunciation

42317 wrote:
Gojira wrote:
Well the way the "a" is pronounced in Japanese is more like "ah" instead of a long a or a short a. Pronouncing it as oni-may is supposed to be the correct to saying that word, but since Anime is a shorter word for animation, it's fine to say it as ani-may. I've taken Japanese language class in high school for 3 years and my sensei says as oni-may when she speaks in Japanese.

I'm having trouble believing what I read there.

What kind of sound are you referring to when you say "oni-may"?
Like in "only"? Hell, I hope not...
Or more like on "on and off"?
Be it as it may, the first option is plainly wrong and the second is definitely not standard Japanese.

The first one? Aw HELL NO.
The second one. Sorta.

I thought the /a/ in "anime" is long rather than short. Please excuse me for my Japanese is a bit rusty lately.

Author:  Mmsven [ June 11th, 2008, 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Pronunciation

42317 wrote:
Yeah, "onimay" is sorta strange.
Do you have the source material (online) available? Can he be contacted somehow?
It might be of importance where this fellow resides in Japan, since there are abundant dialects.

He makes anime-style drawing tutorials on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/user/markcrilley

He says he was in Japan teaching English. He also pronounced manga as "mon-ga".

Author:  42317 [ June 12th, 2008, 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Japanese Pronunciation

Mmsven wrote:
Mark Crilley

In this video, "How to draw a Manga-like face" he says "Manga" several times and he pronounces it the "American way" (like in "bat").
Same goes for this video (although his /a/ in "Anime" is a bit long it's okay as a nonstandard variation), hm, and in this video he says the name "Kazu" in a way that I'm suspecting a pattern, I think he's tending to lengthen /a/ vowels a bit too much (but it's not "fatal" because it still does not change the meaning of the words he uses). From the two Japanese sentences that he utters I can conclude that his Japanese is quite good. It just seems to me that he's having problems shifting from English pronunciation to Japanese pronunciation within a single sentence, which might explain a few "linguistic quirks".

*15 minutes later*

Okay, I've "flipped through" half a dozen of his videos, looking out for the keywords and it's fun to see how he changes slightly in pronunciation with time, to a lesser degree of American accent, but, really, except for what I mentioned already I can't find any of the phenomena that you are talking about. Maybe you could post a link to the video in question, with information about the point in time where I can find "oni-may" and "mon-ga"?
His pronunciation may not be perfect, but in general it's really good and comprehensible from what I've seen, I guess even for Japanese ears who cannot imagine that someone would reach a level of Japanese language proficiency like that. :D

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