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PostPosted: November 28th, 2007, 6:58 pm 
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"Japanese Companies May Join Odex's Case in Singapore
posted on 2007-11-28 15:19 EST
Odex's lawyer says companies would join if Odex loses current round

Singapore television's Channel NewsAsia reports that the Japanese copyright owners may join the anime distributor Odex's legal attempts to obtain the identities of allegedly unauthorized anime downloaders. Odex and Pacific Internet gave their closing arguments in a Wednesday closed-door hearing to determine Odex's right to information on 1,000 of Pacific Internet's subscribers.

Singapore's Subordinate Court had already ruled against Odex's right to legal action in this matter in August because Odex only demonstrated it had an exclusive license to one of the anime series, Mobile Suit Gundam Seed. Under the country's copyright act, only the original copyright holder or an exclusive licensee can take action. If Judge Woo Bih Li rules against Odex's second attempt due to its lack of exclusive licenses for other titles, Odex's lawyer says that the Japanese copyright holders have applied to join Odex as plaintiffs. Odex had held a joint press conference with representatives of Japanese anime companies to show their support in August.

The Internet Business Law Services news portal provides a legal analysis of Odex's strategy and the obligation that Internet service providers have to maintain their customers' privacy." Source

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Seems that the Japanese companies are trying to take a more legal stance against fansubs. I don't think the anime market is that large over in Singapore, so maybe this is a testing ground for them before trying something similar in the US." Source ANN

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Last edited by Acmurphy on November 28th, 2007, 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: November 28th, 2007, 7:20 pm 
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oh my...I, uh...might need to burn my CPU and feed it through a chipper. :shock:

(why did I have to see Hellsing OVA III so badly when it came out :( ?)

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PostPosted: November 28th, 2007, 7:30 pm 
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lol, there is no need to worry at this point. They aren't going to go after people that download here and there. They are going to go after people downloading a lot and/or uploading/subbing titles. (If they do at all over here). So I wouldn't worry yet, but you may want to be a little more careful if they start targeting people here in the states.

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PostPosted: November 28th, 2007, 7:48 pm 
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okay...that was the only time I've ever done it...and I deleted it after I bought the DVD.

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PostPosted: November 28th, 2007, 8:03 pm 
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Cab329 wrote:
okay...that was the only time I've ever done it...and I deleted it after I bought the DVD.

Impressive. Even though I buy basically everything that comes out, I still download a lot just because I like to have a digital back-up, so to speak, and so I can see stuff yet to be released. I'll probably be one of the people they come after if they do, with my 500+ gigs of anime on my HD, but since I have the DVDs for most of them, and so many anime DVDs in general, I would hope they wouldn't try and collect from me (Probably a pipe dream :( ).

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PostPosted: November 28th, 2007, 9:02 pm 
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Well, it will be a while (not too long though) before it reaches the US, so maybe they'll set a date by which no downloading will be allowed....(well, maybe :( ).

I mean, if anime was released online by the companies that made them, I'm sure people would prefer legal purchase as opposed to questionable fan releases.

Sigh...this takes me back to when people were downloading from Napster (back when it was free).

I know this, if they do start prosecuting US residents, they're going to only be able to select a minority of cases (hell, anyone who has made an AMV probably downloaded or ripped) Plus they'll have to sue Google, Dailymotion, Myspace...in any case, there's no way they could sue EVERYONE (it would bankrupt them tryying to keep the cases going).

So I think they need to forgive previous downloads and then set up an alternative to fansubs...the fans get their anime (probably in higher quality than fansubs), the companies make money (not to mention it will be almost all profit considering dvds won't need to be produced for the downloads (and a BUTTLOAD can be made if they charge per episode), and everyone will be happy.

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PostPosted: November 28th, 2007, 10:50 pm 
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The other thing is that even after I bought the DVD I still prefer fansubs because the subtitles are usually better not to mention they include stuff like karaoke for the songs and pop-notes for stuff like Japanese cultural references. Not to mention styled subtitles.

So I usually just end up re-encoding the DVD with the fan-made subtitles instead of the plain VOB subs on the DVD.

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PostPosted: November 30th, 2007, 1:40 pm 
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I think this is a very good contribution:
ANN Editorial: Open Letter to the Industry

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PostPosted: November 30th, 2007, 6:10 pm 
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Damn, that was a good letter.

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PostPosted: December 1st, 2007, 3:17 pm 
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Cab329 wrote:
Damn, that was a good letter.

I was pretty impressed, too. His proposals, like "make the latest Anime available within days!" are radical, almost revolutionary, but reasonable. I mean, all these fansubbers work for free and most do a good job, so why not integrate them into an official and fully legal frame and pay them some money?

There's just one statement that I do not agree with, right in the first lines:
Quote:
These are good times to be an anime fan. DVD's have never been cheaper.

Yes, DVDs in general are cheap.
But Anime DVDs are not!
This week I bought "Blood Diamond" (starring Leonardo diCaprio) for 5 E (FIVE EUROs!), which is a real bargain, even without extensive extras.
Not far from it in the Anime section I find "Secret of Blue Water The Movie" for 40 (FORTY!!!) EUROs (about 58 USD today), and that's a slap in the face.

If DVDs are available for five bucks I'll just buy this or that and if I don't like it there'll be no problem selling it again for a fiver. But when it comes to the usual Anime prices you'll think very, very hard before you decide whether to buy or not, and in most cases, especially if I'm not already a fan of the product, I say "not to buy".

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PostPosted: December 1st, 2007, 8:13 pm 
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42317 wrote:
I was pretty impressed, too. His proposals, like "make the latest Anime available within days!" are radical, almost revolutionary, but reasonable. I mean, all these fansubbers work for free and most do a good job, so why not integrate them into an official and fully legal frame and pay them some money?


That's actually the most reasonable suggestion I got out of his letter (everything else I believe wouldn't work). If anime companies USED these fansubbers to help get their product out there (in exchange for a small fee), why not? Announce it so that the first person to submit a fansub of DECENT quality back to the company will receive a translator's fee (anywhere from a few hundred to a thousand dollars), and the company will then openly offer for download via their website. In this manner, companies can save a lot of money on translation and distribution fees. (Although I think dubbing is still beyond the means of fansubbers)

To be entirely honest though, I still don't like the idea of fansubbers, and were I a dictatorial world leader, I would round up all the fansubbers and throw them into jail. :twisted:

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PostPosted: December 1st, 2007, 10:01 pm 
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Zaxares wrote:
To be entirely honest though, I still don't like the idea of fansubbers, and were I a dictatorial world leader, I would round up all the fansubbers and throw them into jail. :twisted:


Here's the difference between fansubbers and corporations releasing downloadable anime. Corporations only care of making money and making it in the most efficient way possible. Whereas as fansubbers are doing what they do for free just so more people can enjoy anime. Now not that I condone fansubbing especially when the anime in question has already been licensed, but I'm just pointing out that fansubbing does not have a malicious purpose. My experience with downloadable content, even the HD stuff I download off of Xbox Live, isn't a particularly good one. Their encoding jobs aren't always the best and there just isn't the same amount of care or attention put into this kind stuff as there is for many fansubbing groups.

Which is why while I'd love to see official downloadable anime episodes online, I'll have to see how good the quality control is before I subscribe to such a service.

It's funny how that nowadays I often choose fansubs over DVDs not for monetary reasons since I can afford to buy DVDs, but for quality reasons. And as I've said, even after buying the DVDs, I still prefer watching the fansubs.

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PostPosted: December 2nd, 2007, 8:27 am 
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spazmaster666 wrote:
Here's the difference between fansubbers and corporations releasing downloadable anime. Corporations only care of making money and making it in the most efficient way possible. Whereas as fansubbers are doing what they do for free just so more people can enjoy anime. Now not that I condone fansubbing especially when the anime in question has already been licensed, but I'm just pointing out that fansubbing does not have a malicious purpose. My experience with downloadable content, even the HD stuff I download off of Xbox Live, isn't a particularly good one. Their encoding jobs aren't always the best and there just isn't the same amount of care or attention put into this kind stuff as there is for many fansubbing groups.

Which is why while I'd love to see official downloadable anime episodes online, I'll have to see how good the quality control is before I subscribe to such a service.

It's funny how that nowadays I often choose fansubs over DVDs not for monetary reasons since I can afford to buy DVDs, but for quality reasons. And as I've said, even after buying the DVDs, I still prefer watching the fansubs.


I do see your point, but the unfortunate fact of reality is that money does make the world go around. While not all fansubbers may be doing what they do for malicious reasons, they still have an adverse impact on the people who made the anime in the first place, or who spend time and money handling the translations and distributions. I work in the software industry myself, so I've seen firsthand the impact of piracy on profits and people. For that reason I still cannot condone the work of fansubbers.

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PostPosted: December 4th, 2007, 12:35 am 
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42317 wrote:
There's just one statement that I do not agree with, right in the first lines:
Quote:
These are good times to be an anime fan. DVD's have never been cheaper.

Yes, DVDs in general are cheap.
But Anime DVDs are not!


I can't speak for non-US markets, but anime is not that expensive here in the US. I have said this in the past, but I will reiterate it here in more detail:

I own ~1231 anime DVDs right now, ~1229 of which are Region 1 and I have 2 Region 2 DVDs as well. I have been actively purchasing anime DVD's for the past ~4 years, so this is basically a sample of average anime DVD prices over those years. Currently I have spent ~$9800.00 on the 1229 DVDs, with a per DVD cost of ~$7.97 per DVD. Now while I do primarily buy box sets and such, I also purchase singles when they first come out for series such as FMP!, Project Arms (Cost me 320.00 for 15 DVDs) and other such series that I really want either the limited editions for or the DVDs right away (Like Basilisk and Black Lagoon). So even with all of these individual DVD purchases averaged in I still end up with an extremely low cost per DVD by shopping smart most of the time.

So, at any rate, DVD prices are not that high over here, if my purchases are any indication of the prices regular people can pay, on average, for anime DVDs over here.

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PostPosted: December 6th, 2007, 12:00 am 
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Acmurphy wrote:
I own ~1231 anime DVDs right now, ~1229 of which are Region 1 and I have 2 Region 2 DVDs as well. I have been actively purchasing anime DVD's for the past ~4 years, so this is basically a sample of average anime DVD prices over those years. Currently I have spent ~$9800.00 on the 1229 DVDs, with a per DVD cost of ~$7.97 per DVD. Now while I do primarily buy box sets and such, I also purchase singles when they first come out for series such as FMP!, Project Arms (Cost me 320.00 for 15 DVDs) and other such series that I really want either the limited editions for or the DVDs right away (Like Basilisk and Black Lagoon). So even with all of these individual DVD purchases averaged in I still end up with an extremely low cost per DVD by shopping smart most of the time.

So, at any rate, DVD prices are not that high over here, if my purchases are any indication of the prices regular people can pay, on average, for anime DVDs over here.


My problem is that a lot of the time, my anime DVD purchases are complete impulse buys. I'd see that a title was just released this week at Fry's as I was browsing and I'd just pick it up on impulse. So in that sense, it does kind of suck that I usually have to plop now anywhere from $22 to $27 on a single volume of an anime series. Of course buying box sets saves a lot of money but box sets don't come out until a while after all the DVD volumes have been released but unfortunately, a lot of the time I simply can't wait that long. :P

Now it would also depend how the series is being released. If it's five or four episodes per disc, it wouldn't be so bad. But there are always distributors who like to pull crap like put only three episodes per volume.

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